Looting: A Titan Task

[Prophet]

We really need to nail down a method we all agree upon. Because I don't think anyone cares for our current system. I still thought round-robining the whole loot pile via the Trade window was the best. But TQ has too much loot for it to be feasible. Argh.

I don't remember who said it but I think rotating Loot duties during the game is a good idea. When the current Loot player portals back to town, the next player instantly takes up the Loot task.

So here is my plan. Feel free to praise me, or call me a crazy commie.

Short Version

Someone starts as Looter and picks up all non-broken stuff. Fill up your bag then jump to town; next player in line is now the party's Looter. In town you sell your common items. Magic items are dropped into piles separated by player.

If the Looter finds something they could really use (Yellow or weaker), they can equip it! Swap out the old item for the new. Old item is now considered a piece of loot. Looters may take items from other players' piles, but only if they want to equip that item.

Eventually, you sell off your pile of Yellow magic items.

Long Version

1) Looter gathers stuff along the way. Looter may equip any common or Yellow items gathered; un-equipped items are now considered loot.

2) When full, Looter portals back to town. Next player in line takes over Loot duties.

3) In town, the Looter drops all unused magic items in a pile. Each player will have their own loot pile.

4) The Looter may look through the other players' piles for Yellow items to use, and take (all useful? just one?). Note, the Looter may NOT take items from other piles just to sell them.

5) Looter sells off common items and portals back to the party. Maybe the Looter can sell magic items in their pile leftover from the last time they were in town, since nobody claimed them?

One exception to Loot duties. If there are alot of common items on the ground (like after a big battle, or sweeping an enemy camp), everyone pitches in and grabs a few. This will speed up the Looting.

Another idea I had was to separate magic item piles by looting round instead of player. So we'd each dump our items together one round, then make a second pile next round, and so on. The idea would be to keep players from looking at items that they already ruled out earlier. For example, say it is my 3rd time back in town as Looter. When I go picking through the magic piles, I don't want to waste time looking at stuff I already decided not to take my last time in town. Those older items need to either be separated from the rest or already sold off.

[GrendelsBathMat]

Multiplayer looting is truly a pain since the game has no way to get the stat of any item without dumping it into inventory or looking at it during a trade (either another pc or a merchant). Given the bulk of the stuff involved (I remember now why having npcs drop everything they have when they die was a bad idea in NWN...) the only truly effective way to look over everything is during trade with a merchant, since he's not confined to a limited no. of inventory slots like the pcs are.

The only way to truly speed this up then, in my opinion, is just to have a rotating looting position and let it be up to the looter to either keep what he finds or sell it to a merchant. The other pcs can then just purchase the stuff from the merchant, if they really want one of the items. The markup is killer but with the rain of stuff that seems to flow I doubt we'll have many problems. This rule would run for everything that wasn't epic or similar in nature (i.e. the "regular" magic stuff). Those items can be dropped near the merchant and handled at the end of the game session.

I think this system is the simplest since there'll be no confusion at to who is supposed to loot what... basically we can do start alphabetically (for example) have the looter grab stuff, jump out to the merchant, get back and "pass the baton" to the next pc and we can keep the game going without interruption or a long post game loot swap.

Perhaps, we can have a special rule about the quest loot (i.e. the stuff found after a "boss fight") since the better items tend to be found there. I still think, really, the simplest system is probably the best as dealing with all of this is taking away from what infrequent roleplaying opportunities this game does provide.

[Prophet]

The only way to truly speed this up then, in my opinion, is just to have a rotating looting position and let it be up to the looter to either keep what he finds or sell it to a merchant. The other pcs can then just purchase the stuff from the merchant, if they really want one of the items.

Are you sure we can do that? Because I am under the impression that we each have our own copy of the merchant's inventory. If you sell items to the merchant, I will never see them. They are in your merchant's inventory, not mine. We need to confirm which case is true.

I will say that whichever plan we go with, I think the party should keep going while the Looter is in town. They can either catch up, or someone in the party can open a portal for them. The only things I think the party should wait on are quest-related, like fighting a boss or collecting quest items. What do you think?

[GrendelsBathMat]

Are you sure we can do that? Because I am under the impression that we each have our own copy of the merchant's inventory. If you sell items to the merchant, I will never see them. They are in your merchant's inventory, not mine. We need to confirm which case is true.

Well, that would be a bummer then. I'm really not sure one way or the other. Something to test the next time we play!

[TheExcimer-500]

BTW: with the additional players there is even more loot than in single-player. I noticed this last time - a lot more critters and hence a lot more loot. I fear we're going to be filling up with the common items after nearly each big battle (at least until we get the extra inventory bin(s)). However, what I haven't noticed is a boost in "essence" items (odd).

The Merchant:
Initially when sold to the items are kept in a separate space that is somehow linked with individual players. So those are not accessible, immediately to anyone else. After a time these items vanish from that screen. After that there are two possibilities as to where they go:
1) deleted from the game engine
2) placed into the merchant's regular inventory and accessible to all.

I have a suspicion from single-player gaming that it goes into the 2nd option. However, this is completely untested at the moment and we'll need to examine this next time.

The markup however is rather insane, however that would certainly eliminate all this looting b.s. we're going through. As for me - the looting on my part was rather "quick". While looking through all the piles I wrote down the items I was interested in and then just waited for my turn... then quickly grabbed the #1 item on my list... then waited... It did make things much quicker for me. I didn't like the "sell off" part though. Things seemed to rapidly vanish (sold) at the end which I attribute to a miscommunication about the procedure we improvised.

Round-robin looting: I'm just listening to what y'all think at the moment.

[Prophet]

There is a 3rd possibility.
3) placed into the merchant's inventory and accessible to the player that sold it. ie, the inventory is specific to the player.

I think we need to understand how the merchant works in multiplayer. Because that will play a role in how we do the looting. Do we all see the same inventory? What happens to items sold to the merchant, after they disappear?

[GrendelsBathMat]

Ok, let's try a test sell then:

Someone sell an item to the merchant after checking that the merchant doesn't have another of the same item in inventory. Then we can tromp about a bit, come back and each check for the availability of the item. I'm also curious if the items stay through saves as well, although I imagine they should.

Because of the extreme quantity of stuff, and relative easiness of the game, I could live with the merchant markups even if it is highway robbery

[TheExcimer-500]

1) Looter gathers stuff along the way. Looter may equip any common or Yellow items gathered; un-equipped items are now considered loot.

2) When full, Looter portals back to town. Next player in line takes over Loot duties.

3) In town, the Looter drops all unused magic items in a pile. Each player will have their own loot pile.

4) The Looter may look through the other players' piles for Yellow items to use, and take (all useful? just one?). Note, the Looter may NOT take items from other piles just to sell them.

5) Looter sells off common items and portals back to the party. Maybe the Looter can sell magic items in their pile leftover from the last time they were in town, since nobody claimed them?

One exception to Loot duties. If there are alot of common items on the ground (like after a big battle, or sweeping an enemy camp), everyone pitches in and grabs a few. This will speed up the Looting.

Another idea I had was to separate magic item piles by looting round instead of player. So we'd each dump our items together one round, then make a second pile next round, and so on. The idea would be to keep players from looking at items that they already ruled out earlier. For example, say it is my 3rd time back in town as Looter. When I go picking through the magic piles, I don't want to waste time looking at stuff I already decided not to take my last time in town. Those older items need to either be separated from the rest or already sold off.

So we had it close to this last night and I think it worked well. The only diff was in handling special items so everyone got about the same number.

We'll need a rule regarding green items - as they are now x-special (soon they'll be popping up often and yellow items will appear rather common) We'll also get a 2nd inventory slot (eventually a 3rd)

[Prophet]

So, items sold to the merchant just disappear into the void. At least now we know.

I thought the method we had last game was different in another aspect. From what I could tell, loot duties for common items broke down and became an all-party task. When we started taking turns with magic items, it created confusion on whom was responsible for scooping up common. When you said it was SD's turn to pick up a magic item, was it also her turn to start picking up common items? Was she now the official Looter?

I think both of us were thoroughly confused on what was going on the first hour. Eventually I told her, "Screw it. Just pick up common items."

Which did work better, once we understood what the hell was going on. There are so many common items, I think we will all get our fair share easily. But it does cause some trouble with the idea of magic item piles. If we are all collecting common items whenever we want, then we are also going back to town whenever we want. There is no order. And so when you go back, there is no way of knowing whether anyone has had a chance to look over your old magic pile (and whether you can sell it off now or not).

We'll need a rule regarding green items - as they are now x-special (soon they'll be popping up often and yellow items will appear rather common) We'll also get a 2nd inventory slot (eventually a 3rd)

Yes, and I agree with what you said awhile back regarding yellow items. When yellow become commonplace, we should stop looting white (common) items. Waste of time.

But the green items. Why don't we round-robin them at the end of the session, like we did back when yellow items were rare? At the very least I'd like to look at the green items we find. I'm not sure if I've had a chance to look over the latest one.

We also need a rule regarding essences/relics.

[TheExcimer-500]

Ah, hence the confusion.
When I grabbed a yellow item and passed the looting on to SD, then it was her turn to loot entirely (my pack was already full with common). One yellow item and then fill your pack with common items. If another yellow item appeared then it was for the next person in alphabetical order to grab (while you can still fill your pack with common items).

Eventually, it'd be my turn to loot again (either just for a single yellow item) or for common. After my pack was full I waited to return back to town until SD went. Then sold my white & dropped the yellow; then waited again.

The purpose of one yellow item/person round-robin was to keep things even. I hope this makes sense - when we hit the cave the person who's turn it was to loot would've gotten very lucky (a full pack of all yellow).

---
Green items - right now I'm treating that like a blue (though it is usable). We can round-robin that every game perhaps or share between players. Or whoever's turn it was to loot is the lucky one. Last game was the appearance of our first green. Soon many more should follow.
---
Relics & essence - right now they're all being stored in my character's inventory. Although we could consider using them, it's probably best to wait until our equipment becomes semi-permanent (green items). It seems odd to me though that the relic/essence looting has been rather scarce compared to single-player. We only have one complete item which we all received when we completed a mission.

--------------------
Something to test. Can we drop gold? If so, when we pick it up is it auto-shared?

[Prophet]

Ah I see. Yeah, neither of us got that vibe from you. We weren't sure you were still looting or not. But in retrospect there were an awful lot of common items at the beginning, so I can see how your pack filled up so quickly.

I am fine with the one-yellow-per-person round robin method. As you say, it keeps us even. It is just not what I had planned. Hence, further reason for confusion. I also did not get any sense of it being "my turn" to loot. Yes, we took turns with yellow items. But in post-battles with common only, it did not seem like anyone in particular was responsible for looting.

So if everyone agrees, I think looting common items should be an all-party task all the time. Until we feel it is no longer necessary to pick up common items at all. Given the loads of common we are finding, I think it makes sense.

But I like Tom's idea of waiting to go back and sell. In addition to taking turns with yellow items, we would take turns with selling. This way nobody accidentally goes back and sells more bags of loot than anyone else.

So to recap...

1 - Everyone picks up common items
2 - Continue round-robin style pickup of yellow items
3 - Must wait for the player in front of you to go back to sell before you can go (said player might want to let him know when they leave)

How does that sound for a plan?

Green items - right now I'm treating that like a blue (though it is usable). We can round-robin that every game perhaps or share between players. Or whoever's turn it was to loot is the lucky one. Last game was the appearance of our first green. Soon many more should follow.

Waiting for the moment is fine by me. In my single player game, I have just about completed the Megara area and thus far only have 2, maybe 3, green items. For our game, I would like to wait at the very least until we have 4 green items, one for each of us.

Relics & essence - right now they're all being stored in my character's inventory. Although we could consider using them, it's probably best to wait until our equipment becomes semi-permanent (green items). It seems odd to me though that the relic/essence looting has been rather scarce compared to single-player. We only have one complete item which we all received when we completed a mission.

I agree that we should wait until we have more complete relics/essences, and better equipment. But since we are now talking about a rule to divvy up green items (ie, the "better equipment"), it stands to reason we also begin discussing a rule for relics/essences.

Though I too am surprised that we haven't found more. What the hell, it's not like we haven't fought hordes of animals!

[GrendelsBathMat]

We're getting close to a good system!

Ok, here's my take:

Common and broken items (white/grey) just aren't worth the hassle of dealing with until we've decided to jump back to town and you've got an extra space in inventory. Then just grab whatever is nearby and sell it off. These items are only 10% of the value of a single magic item so really, in this game, they're hardly worth bothering with.

Round-robinning the pickup of magic items, with a quick call out of what the item was, worked well I thought. It's a good way of evening out the looting duty and the item piles during the "swap" session in town. For these items, I'd say the looter has first choice of swapping out an equipped item for the new one (and leaving the formerly equipped one in the pile). For the "swap" session other players can do the same as they look from pile to pile. At the end of the "swap" each player sells off his pile. This system at least allows each player the chance to get an item that serves him well. I'd have no problem with just eliminating the swap altogether to speed things up, but I'm ok with it as well.

For green or blue items I'd say we save those until we have four and then we each take one - if the blue are that much better (I haven't had enough experience in this game to really notice) we can have that player compensate in some way - maybe with a gold distribution. We shouldn't have to do this terribly often so it shouldn't slow the game down much to figure it out.

Basically, it looks like this game rains stuff on players like candy so we shouldn't get too hung up on who gets what. Expediency trumps equality I think when we can all be decked out like xmas trees with magical ornaments anyway.

[TheExcimer-500]

For green or blue items I'd say we save those until we have four and then we each take one - if the blue are that much better (I haven't had enough experience in this game to really notice).

Expediency trumps equality I think when we can all be decked out like xmas trees with magical ornaments anyway.

Agreed. I'd much rather keep fighting and moving the plot onward, then collecting items and sorting.

I think with the blue we'll need to reach some sort of consensus or ruling on who gets what. Some items, like the shield are quite insignificant (even underpowered compared to what will soon be dropping). The armor, however, was quite a surprise to me - now that is a very nice piece of work and is overpowered for a good portion of the game (1/2 way). Eventually, Green/Blue come close enough in power that perhaps we can consider them under the same rule.

For now we can round-robin who uses these items week by week. We can go alphabetically (my favorite  ).

The only exception being the special suits of armor and items meant for specific classes.
Defender gets first pick at shields & maces/clubs; Ranger with bows; etc...


The important thing is that no one should feel "cheated". I've played the full game before, so in terms of looting I really don't care, I'm here for enjoying the game with y'all in Multiplayer. Not for character building or anything else.

[Prophet]

The important thing is that no one should feel "cheated".

I think I would feel a lot better about this if we had a plan agreed on. I don't think we've had a single night where we were all on the same page. Even last night I don't think it was clear when it was time to poke through the magic piles.

I felt like a complete asshole last night bringing up my method. I wasn't trying to force my ideas on the party. I was offering an alternative.

Expediency trumps equality I think when we can all be decked out like xmas trees with magical ornaments anyway.

Agreed. I'd much rather keep fighting and moving the plot onward, then collecting items and sorting.

What if we made white items optional? Collect them or not, it is up to the player. Everyone is free to jump back to town for selling commons at any time, but the party will continue on without you. Upon return, the player will have to catch up.

I think that appeases everyone. I get my gold, you guys get to keep going.

For green/blue, I am still of the opinion that we should wait until we have enough for everyone. It is not like we need the boost in power (especially that armor, based on T's reaction). But if you guys want to start putting them to use, I won't object.

The only exception being the special suits of armor and items meant for specific classes.
Defender gets first pick at shields & maces/clubs; Ranger with bows; etc...

Okay, well I would like that nailed down. Otherwise we risk misunderstandings and players indeed feeling cheated. There is plenty of overlap. For example, shouldn't Warfare also have a say on maces/clubs as they are melee weapons? Both Hunting and Rogue get spear bonuses. Rogues like swords, which also fall under Warfare's melee weapon preference. Is Warfare willing to take backseat to clubs, maces, swords and spears? Who really gets what? Here is the party breakdown:

Tom - Defense: Shields, clubs/maces
Allan - Warfare: All melee
Prophet - Rogue: swords/spears
SirrahDanu - Hunting: Bows, spears

I am assuming there are no items specific to each magic mastery (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

How do we want to divide it up?

[TheExcimer-500]

I am assuming there are no items specific to each magic mastery (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Yes, there are some specific items that boost the magic level of all your skills in that character class. I think we already found one that raises the defender levels by 1 (the blue-shield I think).  In another game I kept coming across a bow that added to the hunter's levels.

I mentioned shields/clubs&maces for defender b/c there are bonuses specific only to those (clubs/maces get an added stunning effect; and the shield counts as a weapon attack). I don't know enough about the other classes' bonuses - so that's something for us to chat/research.

ps. I wasn't trying to force my ideas on the party. I was offering an alternative.

I didn't think that at all!

Regarding the white items: I was even thinking we can just leave them be until the end of the game and then while doing our end-game chat, we just sweep back and grab/sell.

EDIT: Rereading your post (and being more awake this time) it looks like you've already nailed down the bonuses:
Tom - Defense: Shields, clubs/maces
Allan - Warfare: All melee
Prophet - Rogue: swords/spears
SirrahDanu - Hunting: Bows, spears

So... It looks like we've got a bit of overlap, unfortunately. Well.. SD gets first pick on Bows. After that, I guess we can either declare a single weapon of choice, or just continue doing what we're doing (round robin).

[Prophet]

I am assuming there are no items specific to each magic mastery (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Yes, there are some specific items that boost the magic level of all your skills in that character class.

What I meant is there are no abilities within magic-oriented masteries (Earth, Storm, Nature, Spirit) that are dependent on a specific item, right? For example, Defense has abilities that need a shield, but none of Earth's powers are dependent on any item. Am I correct is saying that? I am just trying to narrow down the scope.

EDIT: Rereading your post (and being more awake this time) it looks like you've already nailed down the bonuses:

Yeah, I wasn't sure. I just looked over SD's hard copy of the mastery charts and looked for any references to items. For example, Warfare's Weapon Training says "Increase attack speed and offense with melee weapons." So I listed "all melee" for Warfare.

So... It looks like we've got a bit of overlap, unfortunately. Well.. SD gets first pick on Bows. After that, I guess we can either declare a single weapon of choice, or just continue doing what we're doing (round robin).

I'd like to know what Allan thinks, because any melee weapon we pick will be one taken away from him. Until we flesh this out, I'd stick with the round robin.

Regarding the white items: I was even thinking we can just leave them be until the end of the game and then while doing our end-game chat, we just sweep back and grab/sell.

I'd be willing to try that. But don't you think it might take longer than the current method? I mean, we would have to re-trace all our progress that night.

[TheExcimer-500]

TQ Vault: http://www.tqdefiler.com/downloads.html

I will be using this to store our relics instead of having them fill up the axillary bag on my character.
You can also use this program to store items you may want to use later, or hold on to.

It does open up possibilities such as removing relics/charms/essences from items. Then there's a whole lot of illegal things that can be done with it (such as copying items).

We can discuss it's "illegal" usage if necessary.
For example - should we allow the removal of relics/charms/essences?

[TheExcimer-500]

An interesting thought:
Offline loot distribution - using the vault we can transfer items around offline by transmitting the vault file in a round robin manner. Items can be lent to the vault from our characters, exchanged, removed, and tested ingame (offline).

We can download the vault file from here and post that it is currently being viewed, and then upload it back for someone else to look through.
ATTACHED the file for testing - see bottom of post
Test (Vault Name - RPG-Multiverse - place in MyDocuments/MyGames/TitanQuest/TQVaultData)
Page 1: Athenikus' items (for trade)
Page 10: Green items (currently only Magi-Hood)
Page 11: Relics
Page 12: Monster Charms


--nifty it even creates a txt file that includes all the items:

SACK 0
      0 Oak Carved Staff of Endurance

SACK 9
      0 Pupil's Hood of the Magi

SACK 10
      0 Essence of Artemis' Bowstring (Completed Relic Bonus offensive_damagebonus_01)
      1 Essence of Dionysus' Wineskin (Completed Relic Bonus offensive_stun_02)
      2 Essence of Herakles' Might (Relic Shard - 1 / 3)
      3 Essence of Zeus' Thunderbolt (Completed Relic Bonus offensive_stun_02)
      4 Essence of Dionysus' Wineskin (Completed Relic Bonus offensive_stun_02)
      5 Essence of Dionysus' Wineskin (Relic Shard - 1 / 3)
      6 Essence of the Valor of Achilles (Relic Shard - 1 / 3)
      7 Essence of the Valor of Achilles (Relic Shard - 1 / 3)
      8 Essence of Zeus' Thunderbolt (Completed Relic Bonus offensive_stun_02)
      9 Essence of Anubis' Wrath (Relic Shard - 1 / 3)
     10 Essence of Prometheus' Flame (Completed Relic Bonus character_speedattack_01)
     11 Essence of Archimedes' Mirror (Relic Shard - 1 / 3)
     12 Essence of Herakles' Might (Completed Relic Bonus character_attributestrength_02)
     13 Essence of the Golden Fleece (Completed Relic Bonus character_attributeenergy_01)
     14 Essence of the Golden Fleece (Completed Relic Bonus character_attributeenergy_02)
     15 Essence of Prometheus' Flame (Completed Relic Bonus character_speedattack_01)
     16 Essence of Artemis' Bowstring (Completed Relic Bonus offensive_damagepierce_01)
     17 Essence of Archimedes' Mirror (Completed Relic Bonus defensive_resistlightning_01)
     18 Essence of Hecate's Crescent (Relic Shard - 2 / 3)
     19 Essence of the Golden Fleece (Relic Shard - 2 / 3)

SACK 11
      0 Bat Fang (Completed Charm Bonus offensive_leechmana_01)
      1 Boar Hide (Completed Charm Bonus character_abilitydefensive_02)
      2 Diseased Plumage (Monster Charm - 3 / 5)
      3 Hag's Skin (Monster Charm - 2 / 5)
      4 Venom Sac (Monster Charm - 3 / 5)
      5 Mechanical Parts (Monster Charm - 3 / 5)
      6 Lupine Claw (Monster Charm - 2 / 5)
      7 Pristine Plumage (Completed Charm Bonus defensive_resistpoison_01)
      8 Demon's Blood (Monster Charm - 1 / 5)
      9 Bat Fang (Monster Charm - 2 / 5)
     10 Turtle Shell (Monster Charm - 3 / 5)
     11 Rigid Carapace (Monster Charm - 1 / 5)

[Prophet]

A most interesting tool. I just tried it out, downloading the vault file you posted, T. It works. I can view all the items you listed (in case anyone else gets confused, you have to click on the sack tabs under RPGmultiverse to see the items).

At the very least I think this is a great way to view the status of our relic/essence collection. We can see what we have, and what abilities they offer. And best of all, we can do it at our leisure. No waiting for someone to give up the round robin pile.

That and we can determine whether it is time to start distributing these items. For example, I think we have enough completed relics to consider handing them out.

An interesting thought:
Offline loot distribution - using the vault we can transfer items around offline by transmitting the vault file in a round robin manner. Items can be lent to the vault from our characters, exchanged, removed, and tested ingame (offline).

Interesting idea. I would say not at this time. But if we as a group get comfortable with using this tool, then I say we go for an offline round robin.

[TheExcimer-500]

Just a note: when you use the Vault you must load TQ via the TQMonitor program - a window pops up when you close the vault to launch it. Otherwise your characters will not be available.